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February 18, 2009

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C. Copeland

You're forgetting two things 1: "liberalism" specifically refers to a free-market system, so a correlation between the modern Democratic Party and socialist politics is feeble at best. The modern Democratic party owes more to the "Populist" end of the spectrum (I'm thinking people like Margaret Sanger here) than the radical socialist end of the spectrum (ie Emma Goldman, Eugene Debbs). Socialism and Populism, at the height of their influence in the US, did not see eye to eye.
and 2: Hitler was NOT a Socialist in the way the term is commonly applied. He said so in his own words:

“Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not.”- Adolf Hitler, 1930

The notion that the man who ordered the "Final Solution" would follow the economic theories of a born Jew (which was a GENETIC and not religious designation under the third reich) is utterly ridiculous. Revise your rhetoric.

Woody

"a correlation between the modern Democratic Party and socialist politics is feeble at best"

Okay... Your grip on reality is what's feeble, and to debate you would probably be a waste of time.

Ciao.

C. Censored

"Okay... Your grip on reality is what's feeble, and to debate you would probably be a waste of time."

A sure sign of an inferior intellect. If your ideas held water, you would allow them to be examined. You, sir, are a coward.

As a question: have you ever actually READ "Mein Kampf" or "The Communist Manifesto"? This may be a good place to examine the essential differences between basic Socialist and Nazi ideologies.

Never mind...you probably are also of the equally unassailable opinion that even cracking those volumes would be inviting demonic possession on yourself.

Hope I didn't use too many big words.

Woody

I created this site, I pay for this site, and I welcome comments from visitors but not harassment or counter-blogging in the comment section.

That being said, I do admit deleting your previous comment today was rather dickish of me, so accept my apologies and chalk it up to my having had a rough day at work. This new Obamanomics thing is not going so well for my company and I had to lay some people off. It tends to put you on edge if you genuinely care for the people you employ.

Your initial comment cited one single Hitler quotation and failed to address any of the seven points I quoted from the manifesto he himself penned. Nor did you attempt to refute any of Dr. Ray's conclusions. Thus I felt your comments did not merit a direct rebuttal, since you were going off on a tangent of your own. The fact that Hitler wrote one contradictory sentence in his lifetime does not prove he was not a socialist, nor does the fact that he did not enact 100% of the socialist agenda. Did he nationalize all industry? No, he nationalized the people, and bent industry to his will. A visit from the SS was all it took to get any banker or factory owner to cooperate. I never said he was a Marxist or a Communist.

The fact that you deny a connection between modern liberals and socialism is ludicrous in my opinion. I’m sure you can cite many examples where socialists of yore differ from Democrats of today, but I can cite as many if not more examples of today’s liberals pushing for excessive government regulation and controls, central planning, nationalization of industries, expansion of the welfare state and all the other hallmarks of the ideology. Not to mention the inordinately high number of Democratic voters spotted wearing Che t-shirts! Or do you also deny that Che was a socialist?

I have little doubt my post or comments will cause you to have an epiphany and change your beliefs, and having read Dr. Ray’s work I see little chance you can accumulate enough selected Hitler quotations to change mine. Perhaps its best we agree to disagree.

Mike

I wonder... do you think that Obama had the SS visit Rick Wagoner over the weekend? It sure sounds like it....

Woody

Well there IS a precedent for socialist leaders trying to run an automobile company. Hitler had many suggestions for the Volkswagen Beetle as I recall...

A Hermit

Hitler a socialist?! Not at all. In fact, I recently visited Struthof concentration camp in Alsace, where the grandfather of a friend of mine was imprisoned by the Nazis for the crime of being Socialist...

Quoting the 1925 manifesto is quite misleading; by the time the Nazis became a real political force to be reckoned with they had jettisoned most of the "socialist" rhetoric and purged those with socialist tendencies from the party. The truth is they were a corporatist, fascist, nationalist party supported by Germany's industrialists, financiers and landowners(Junkers) and allied with the conservative and nationalist parties. There was a degree of Keynesianism in their economic policies, but that was a matter of practicality, not ideology. Hitler was also a vegetarian and declared himself a Christian and a Catholic. He also had a moustache...none of those things, however, warrant the label "Nazi" being attached to them and neither do Keynesian economics.

If you're looking for modern American parallels a closer match would be the nativist, militaristic, "traditional values" anti-socialist activists on the right. And even that analogy is imperfect.


ox

So because the Nazis imprisoned other socialists that is proof they were not socialist? Idiot.

David Baker

There were some liberal tenets sprinkled among Hitler's hardline, nihilistic principles, but he was not a man to be either admired, nor emulated. Hitler believed in a "Master Race". He was a proponent of perfecting German society by ridding their population of undesirables, particularly Jews. Though there is no proof of the so-called "Holocaust", and there IS proof that the Third Reich was working in conjunction with Zionists to force the emigration of European Jews to Palestine, Hitler still was a man obsessed with power, to the point that he employed his armies to destroy neighboring countries, and impose his agenda upon sovereign nations.

DrCruel

The Bolsheviks imprisoned and killed rival socialists. So did the Maoists. The Vietnamese communists were allied with the Khmer Rouge before they betrayed and attacked them, and fought a fratricidal, genocidal war for two decades before assimilating the Khmer Rouge communists into their party. Nowadays they're again friends.

The National Socialists were imprisoning rivals from another socialist faction, mainly Bolshevik Russian loyalists. Many of these people survived the war, in part by taking over Buchenwald and running it as their own camp, helping fellow Bolsheviks survive and working to deliberately kill the rest. After the war they pretty much picked up where the Nazis left off, actually keeping quite a few of the death camps alive under the Bolshevik puppet regime to use for the disposal of their political enemies (not all of whom were Nazis). The Stasi simply took over for the Gestapo. Their soldiers even continued to goosestep under the Pro-Soviet German communists, and people were shot for trying to escape from the country.

The Bolsheviks and Nazis were pretty much birds of a feather. Very little by way of similarities between the liberal democracies and the Nazis though - that is, unless you're talking about some of the Roosevelt administration's "liberal" policies (the same sort that are lauded by libearls today), in which case you'd have a stronger argument. But again, the Nazis and Marxists are so close in ideology, to include the intrinsic racism (and anti-Semitism) of the Bolsheviks and virtually every other Marxist group that has ever existed, that there's practically nothing to distinguish between them outside of which particular hypocritical psychopathic despots happen to be in charge.

Joseph

Hitler was not a socialist or a communist. He was a great man and a great leader. I am offended by the fact that you would even compare the two ideologies.

Hitler spent years trying to rid the Fatherland of communists and Jews. If he were truly a communist then he would've promoted a society run by Jews and Slavic workers as opposed to a pure Aryan nation.

Hitler did not attempt to seize control of the major German industries, which is what a communist dog would do. Rather, he worked in collusion with leading Aryan businessmen.

Many people in America were great friends of National Socialism such as Henry Ford and Walt Disney and I highly doubt that they are communists.

National Socialism and Fascism espouse a third way which avoids the chaotic strikes, labor disputes, and economic recessions of Capitalism while also straying from the evils of Communism.

Hitler was a conservative leader who fought for traditional Christian values. He loved Jesus and he sought revenge against those who played a part in Jesus' death.

From my personal experience, Jews are often the ones proliferating communist propaganda and are often the ones fighting to undermine the capitalist system. I would be more worried about that than about whether Hitler was a leftists (which he was not).

Woody

"He was a great man and a great leader."

Dude, go sell crazy somewhere else.

Hitler was a demented degenerate who planned and perpetrated some of the most heinous atrocities mankind has ever known.

Oh, and he was a Socialist, which is just one more facet of his degeneracy I suppose.

job one

because of all of these comments, and many more events that have gone on during the last 37 years, are why I pray every day for the meteors to come and hit the earth. Then let GOD sort it out. However, before that happens:
DrCruel when the o in the oral office has his SS, or NBP visit you at 0300 with out the party pizza, then you will know what it was like during the dark years of 1932--1945.

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